LUNA CYCLE UPDATE ON THEIR HORRIBLE,
TERRIBLE, RUDE, DISRESPECTABLE CUSTOMER SUPPORT
AFTER PURCHASING ELECTRIC BIKE PARTS & COMPONENTS
FOR A CURRENT HYBRID E-BIKE BUILD

Just letting folks know about the terrible customer support from Luna Cycle should you wish to do business with them purchasing e-bike motors, parts, components, batteries, chargers and other items for your electric / e-bike hybrid build. We were excited to purchase, support and share the new items and parts we were seeing during the launch of their company.

It came down to an early 52v Advanced Charger having problems upon delivery (and after a $1400 order), and charging of a $500 52v Shark battery pack. They said to hang on to it and see how things went. Well during the build (also less than a year old on a charger that was used three times), this is how they dealt with troubleshooting a battery charging / or bad charger question we were trying to figure out... even knowing that they had some issues / recalls with the initial units that were sent out.

All we wanted to do after the build WAS publicized and promote them! PROBLEM: We could not charge the bike, let alone ride it!! The Luna Advanced 52v charger and Panasonic Shark battery issue was TRIED to be explained to them in detail, as the problems challenged everyone I tried to rach and especailly on the various electric bike forums. After hours and hours TRYING to reach them on the Support Ticket "system," and multiple phone calls, we were consistintly refered to the various electric bike forums or troubleshooting links that challenged every intelligent individual that participated in helping. By the way, thank you very much to the folks that tried to help during the "what the heck is going on" question.

Luna Cycle could have simply offered (as we requested) to allow us to just ship the battery and charger down and figure out what the issue was? Was it the early recalled / now changed Luna Advanced 52v charger or the $525 Panasonic Shark 52v 13.5 ah GA battery? Instead, here's the thread. We will not overwhelm you with the all the random, non-helpful email responses, but here is the latest... along with the thread. Sad sad Luna Cycle and Eric Hicks.

SEP 12, 2017 | 09:49PM UTC
Scott replied:

There is simply just too much to sort through at this point for a small charger. In the future, I recommend keeping your email summaries down to a minimum. It’s very difficult to troubleshoot an issue if you’re just going off on a rant and talking about unrelated subjects.

If it were new and recently purchased, we’d just send you a new one but unfortunately it’s far too old at this point. Chargers are covered for 6 months and beyond that. The problem appears to be the charger and it’s going to need to be replaced.

https://electricbike.com/forum/forum/ask-lunacycle/ask-a-question/43790-110v-luna-charger-52v-advanced-300w-charger-52v-13-5ah-ga-shark-pack-not-charging

110v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Charger / 52v 13.5ah GA Shark pack -- Not charging?

  •  110v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Charger / 52v 13.5ah GA Shark pack -- Not charging?

    2 weeks ago
    SUBJECT: 110v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger / 52v Panasonic 13.5ah GA Shark pack -- Not charging at all? I cannot "prompt the charger to start charging!" What am I doing wrong or missing here??!!

    https://youtu.be/NNtD13eD9BQ
    YouTube Video Example of charger at 39+- volts and coming “on” for a second.. then pausing again. 110v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger / BBSHD 1000w Mid Drive Kit / 52v 13.5ah GA Shark pack

    Problem 22 hours later... it (the battery and charger voltage level / read-out is going down to the 39v+- volt level FROM 42 volts that it was at 22 hours ago?

    OBJECTIVE: slow, smart / balanced charge from 42 volts to 100% / 58-ish volts level and ideally balanced. Just trying to do it right to get to 100% and start riding the new project bike that is now completed enough to ride!

    Luna Smart Charger is plugged in - Dials set to 100% and the #1 level

    The battery's voltage is bouncing around FROM the initial 42.3 volt level when it was initially plugged in, to the 39.6+- volt area with the voltage bouncing around slightly and BRIEF fan noise and quick (1-second) charge, then back to nothing. (The video example shows a good example of that). Ideas? Suggestions? Just trying to do it right!

    Thanks much for any advise!

    ------------------------------------

    Full Story:
    SUBJECT: 110v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger / 52v Panasonic 13.5ah GA Shark pack -- Not charging at all? I cannot "prompt the charger to start charging!" What am I doing wrong or missing here??!!

    https://youtu.be/NNtD13eD9BQ
    YouTube Video Example of charger at 39+- volts and coming “on” for a second.. then pausing again.
    220v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger / BBSHD 1000w Mid Drive Kit / 52v 13.5ah Shark pack

    So trying to summarize this, I was an early customer of Luna purchasing a 52v SSHD motor with the Shark 52v battery / 220v Luna Charger 52V Advanced 300W Ebike Charger (when it first came out) and basically trying to get the best all-around set-up that Luna offered. I remember having to wait for the new chargers to come in… when I ordered my motor / battery kit… the new 52v charger was not in stock and showed up three or four weeks later… not a big deal because the motor was not even installed. Interesting though, is that when I see the “newest version” of the “same charger” I purchased, there is a red toggle switch on the right hand side of it and mine has two dials on it. One dial is for 80, 90 or 100% and the other dial is for the charge rate 1,2,3,4 or 5.

    So from the very get go (about a year ago), I was finding glitches (maybe my doing OR an early version of the Luna Advance Smart Charger??)

    The "glitch" seemed to be when the battery was at say around a 52 volt scenario and I was trying to prompt the charger to kick-in / start charging to 80%.... it would not even kick in UNTIL I dropped the voltage down to 45-50 volts and then plugged it in. In other words, it seemed that the charger would not start charging from say 70% if I was trying to bring it to 80% without dropping the battery down to a lower voltage level or whatever. Basically, I should not go from a 75% charge to 80% charge (kind of like wanting to do an 80% "top off" from 72% or whatever). The charger just would not "top it off to 80%... or even start charging EVEN if the battery was at 75%... which would theoretically leave 5% to top it off -- if this makes any sense).

    That part did not bother me, BUT I did not think that was not an ideal situation or maybe an area of the charger that could use some improvement. Don't know... just sayin' … trying to help out with feedback!!

    It seemed hit and miss to get the 52v batter from say a 75% charge to a 80, 90 or 100% charge WITHOUT draining the battery down to a state where the charger would start charging whatsoever. Again, don't know, but it seemed weird.

    Over the winter I occasionally turned on the unit, gave the bike some throttle, tried to keep it active etc... still operating in the 75% charge arena ... thinking I was doing the right thing... hopefully I was.

    CURRENT SCENERIO - AFTER TEST RIDING THE NEW BIKE'S SET-UP ON 8-28-17
    TRYING TO GET THE BATTERY TO SLOW CHARGE / BALANCE FROM 42.0v to 100% - PROPERLY AND PATIENTLY!!! BIT I CANNOT SEEM TO GET THE BATTERY TO CHARGE

    Luna Smart Charger is plugged in - Dials set to 100% and the #1 level

    OBJECTIVE: slow, smart / balanced charge from 42 volts to 100% / 58-ish volts level and ideally balanced. Just trying to do it right to get to 100% and start riding the new project bike that is now completed enough to ride!

    SCENERIO: I started riding the bike.. the battery was at 54 volts... everything was good. I took it for a few test rides, stopping in between to adjust a few cosmetic things on the bike.

    Rode it again, off and on, periodically gave the bike a break while I adjusted a few cosmetic fender things, and then started riding it again till it stopped assisting / providing pedal assist. The batter was a little over 42 volts at the time.. just as if I was out on the road in a normal scenario of a long ride.

    SO, then.. I thought I'd try and do a slow charge from its 42 volt status to 100% 58+- volt status slowly.

    Luna Smart Charger is plugged in - Dials set to 100% and the #1 level

    After an hour or so, with the bike “off,” and everything settled down / cooled off / etc...although it really never got hot… I tried plugging in the charger to the wall... then the charger to the battery .. and there was basically no "charge / fan noise" etc...

    The battery's voltage was bouncing around on the charger's red LED panel from 42.3 ot 42.2 then maybe 40.3 etc... I'm thinking... maybe it's thinking (the charger and battery)!
    Then, after a few hours, the charger / battery even starting dropping to the 39 volt area with a BRIEF fan noise and quick (1-second) charge, then back to nothing. (The video example shows a good example of that).

    I was thinking that maybe I should do it in reverse order. i.e. Unplugged the charger from the wall, hooked the battery to the charger first, then plugged the charger into the wall.. and then visa versa again.
    I tried it a few times in different orders... FINALLY, I plugged the charger to the wall, then to the battery (which was around 42 volts and then just walked away and let it do its thing).
    SO being patient I thought would be the correct plan... I checked in 2 hours later and the battery went from the 39.8 volts to a 42.9 volt stage and I thought everything was going good. COOL, so I thought.

    Then, I waited another six hours and the battery level was down to 39.6 volts and the charger would pause for three or four minutes and then come on for a second and give it a brief charge and then go back and pause again. It seemed to be "slow charging” and doing its balancing thing, but here is the problem.

    PROBLEM THIS MORNING (20 HOURS LATER): The battery is now back to 39.5 volts, the charger's light is green and then yellow while it gives it a dose of charge BUT the voltage is still at 35.6 volts that is lower voltage than when I started 20 hours ago. What the heck??!! Am I doing something wrong or is it maybe a glitch of the early version / shipping of the new 52 volt Smart Charger when it was first shipped? I know that at the time, when I talked to Luna about the initial “topping of from 75-80% not really working smoothly, Luna Tech Dept said to try and see how it goes and it may just be the charger had a glitch. No problem, the bike was going to be worked on through the Winter and I was happy with the way the bike performed. The battery was charged to around the 80% level…. All good.

    QUESTION AT THIS POINT: Is the battery charger just doing an initial load balance / charge / learning process or am I doing something wrong? We are approaching 24 hours on this : )
    The battery was at 42.9 volts yesterday afternoon BUT it is coming up to the 22 hour mark and the battery is currently down to 39.5 volts??? Green and Yellow light is on... What the heck?!
    Is it still balancing before charging? Do I need to set the dials / settings on the charger differently? Plug things (battery / charger) in via a different order? Or just let it do its thing? How many days am I looking at if that is the case?!!!

    Please advise on anything!! I do not want this to go on for days and again, maybe I got an earlier version of the Luna Smart Charger that was buggy like the support team suggested could be a possibility?
    Thanks again for all!
    Attached Files
    • Click image for larger version    Name:	LED-LIGHT-EXAMPLES.jpg  Views:	2  Size:	380.6 KB  ID:	43843
    Last edited by DEENTVTG; 2 weeks ago.
    Tags: None

  • #2
    2 weeks ago
    Did you try measuring the voltage the charger is putting out with a multi-tester? Also curious why you have a 220V charger if you're in the US?
    Last edited by; 2 weeks ago.
  • 2 weeks ago
    Originally posted by Zy View Post
    Did you try measuring the voltage the charger is putting out with a multi-tester? Also curious why you have a 220V charger if you're in the US?
    The picture shows a 110V unit.

  • #4
    2 weeks ago
    Sounds like a faulty charger. Is the green light flashing? (and is there an audible clicking) I had a similar issue with my charger and had to get a different one. Put in a trouble ticket.

     
    • DEENTVTG
      #4.1
      DEENTVTG commented
      2 weeks ago
      The light is flashing red & green together (meaning it looks like the one led light is divided into two lights)! I have a pic and let me see where I can post it.
      Light set-up on the charger is described as:
      Fuse is above two LED lights to the right
      LED2 has both a yellow/orange fast blinking light and a green light to the right of it) -Yes all in the one LED2 circle.
      LED1 is a solid red.

      Thanks for any input everyone. My phone call to Luna that I finally got through to, was nothing but what seemed a ridiculing call. Basically send an email to support@lunacycle.com. Unlike the old days with good chat (I remember Sylvain) being awesome for sure. Bummer bummer for sure.
  • #5 
    2 weeks ago
    It is a 110v.. my bad... I believe it is a faulty charger from the get go. It was hit and miss as to when "it wanted" to charge the battery. I know that may sound wacky, but it seemed like that. I was assuming that if the battery was at say, 70-75% and I wanted to charge it to 80%, 90% or 100%, it would charge... but I had to drain the battery down to a level (or whatever coincidence it took to get it to even kick on the charger). Other than the charger, everything is awesome. FYI... again, the charger was one of the first to be shipped and it looks like the current 110v / 52 volt charger is a little different than the original. It is kind of difficult to get a hold of them these days (I have been trying to get a hold of them for a couple of days... and it is really a bummer to not have the good support available. I'm hanging in there and thanks for all the input.

    By the way, the YouTube link shows the charger in action and is a good example of what is happening.

    #6 
    2 weeks ago
    Super bummer... just got through to phone support and was basically ridiculed asking WTF was happening. The newer version of the charger looks nothing link the one I was sent. Kind of shootin' in the dark at this point and that really sucks!
    1 Photo

  • #7 
    2 weeks ago
    In response to this.... here is the pic of the LED2 & LED1 lights on the charger. Thanks everyone.


    DEENTVTG commented
    9 minutes ago
    The light is flashing red & green together (meaning it looks like the one led light is divided into two lights)! I have a pic and let me see where I can post it.
    Light set-up on the charger is described as:
    Fuse is above two LED lights to the right
    LED2 has both a yellow/orange fast blinking light and a green light to the right of it) -Yes all in the one LED2 circle.
    LED1 is a solid red.

    Thanks for any input everyone. My phone call to Luna that I finally got through to, was nothing but what seemed a ridiculing call. Basically send an email to support@lunacycle.com. Unlike the old days with good chat (I remember Sylvain) being awesome for sure. Bummer bummer for sure.

     
    • #7.1 
       commented
      2 weeks ago
      Do the trouble ticket thing and if you speak with staff on the phone be nice, a friend of mine who lives by me had a charger that went belly up and Luna sent him a brand new one and just told him to send the faulty one back to them after he got the new one-I thought that was real nice of them to do that.
    • #7.2 
      DEENTVTG commented
      2 weeks ago
      Always nice for sure!! Things have just changed a bit and the idea is to get to the staff... the "good 'ol" staff that I signed up to do business with!! These guys were very helpful during the initial purchase / build objectives. It is just hard to get there and actually speak or "Chat" with someone this time around : (
  • #8
    2 weeks ago
    Pack voltage is abnormal and perhaps BMS is protecting the battery? What is the unloaded charger voltage measured with both the built-in meter and DMM?

     
    • #8.2
       commented
      2 weeks ago
      IMO the pack became drastically unbalanced due to the 80% charge cycles. The BMS is unable to balance a pack without applying 100% charge voltage. 

      The “big” answer to your question is that the pack probably cut-off during the “normal” ride because an out of balance cell group reached ODDV (over discharge detection voltage) and the BMS cutoff to protect the pack from further damage or perhaps worse. 

      On 52V (58V HOC) battery pack 44-45V is roughly the point they’re empty. Sure, you may be able to ride another couple blocks depending on how much throttle’s used but when I see 44-45V on my 52V pack the ride is pretty much over. 

      Leave the charger connected on at least level 3 (Amps) I would do 5, but give it a lot of time (days) to balance and if it’s going to come around the pack voltage should eventually start to rise. If it doesn’t then someone will need to open the pack and measure the cell groups and determine what group is unbalanced and why.
    • DEENTVTG
      DEENTVTG commented
      2 weeks ago
      "yk"... thanks so much for the info! I HOPE I am lucky on this one. Ironically, two days ago, I did set the power level to 3 amps and was VERY patient... two days later, I am up to 46.9 volts. The charger comes on briefly (maybe less than a second), and then pauses and repeats. Again, I am up to 46.9 which I hope is a good sign!

      I am also hoping that the battery and charger is "doing its thing" to rebalance the battery and yes, I am charging it to 100% this time! Thoughts on whether the battery can be recovered to a normal new batter (as if it hardly been used after the initial rides... before I began the custom build on the rest of the bike). am hoping everything will be good to go when this is all said and done.

      ALSO, since it appears I drained the battery too far (I obviously had o way to know -- as I just expected to ride it till it quit). I was also using the DPC-14 Display as that was what was available when I purchased the kit. The obvious problem is that is intended for a 48 volt battery... not the 52v Panasonic Shark pack 13.ah GA I purchased.

      With that being said, I am noticing both a DPC C965A / C965... Would it be wiser using a gauge meant for 52 volts vs the DPC-14?? I noticed when you buy the BBSHD 1000 kit, they do not even offer the DPC-14, the only offer the DPC-18... which looks very cool and it appears to be rated for 52 volts I believe?? Wondering what Luna would be open to as far as upgrading the from the (hardly used) DPC-14 to the DPC-18? On top of that, I am wondering if it would be a plug and play upgrade that is (or could be) programmed for the bike as a plug and play replacement to my current set-up. (I think Luna did some slight programming mods on the DC-14) that performs good. The bike is a heavy Beach Cruiser and I am happy with the display... but this issue of the battery draining to an unsafe point with the DPC-14 really scares me. I was liking the way the DPC-14 was set-up from the get go... just wondering what it would take (or if it would be wise) upgrade... but I do want the best for the bike and especially the battery. I can write back later, but I am crossing my fingers that I am going to get up to the 58+- capacity. Again, all thoughts are SO appreciated. I have emailed Luna twice and am SO up in the air on this whole thing!!

      AND, you advice is SO welcomed and appreciated. Again thanks for all!!/
      Kindest regards.
      P.S. I hope I can ride this weekend!! Maybe not how long this is taking, but maybe it is "doing its thing.!" Maybe a couple of more days??!!
    • #8.4
      yk commented
      1 week ago
      Yes, if the pack voltage is slowly coming up you should leave it charging and cycling so that the BMS can balance what appears to be a severely out of balance pack. Folks would be much better off ignoring 80-90% charge capability unless they're NOT going to use the pack for a few days or more. I've seen 80-90% short-charging cause many more problems (like here) than it ever solves. As in this case, how much longevity is actually gained by hammering cell groups into ODDV? Ugh...

      DPC-14 is fine display but people should enable the volt meter and use both resting and sag voltage under load to best judge SOC (state of charge) instead of the % or that goofy battery icon fuel gauge. Which btw, isn't even accurate with 48V pack, IMO.

      A relatively minor problem with DPC-14 is that the volt meter doesn't read much above 56V but in practice that really isn't much of a legit problem. As soon as load is applied the pack drops below 56V and it's reasonably accurate voltage readings from that point on. Yes, it's annoying to put a freshly charged 52V (58V) pack on the bike and only see 56V but that's a minor hiccup with no real downside for practical use. 

      Turn the charge current up to 5A. It will probably balance faster.
  • #9 
    1 week ago
    Thank you again... I had to leave for a couple days (fires in Oregon) and put it back on the charger last night at the 3 level.... went from 48 volts to 48.1 in six hours... I'm really trying to get Luna involved for help and they sent me this:

    https://electricbike.com/forum/forum...ctrical-issues to see if resetting the battery’s BMS is the answer.

    I'm totally confused at this point and have been working on this bike in hopes of riding it. Also working on facebook.com/wildbeachcruisers and again... just hopin' that they can respond and allow me to send it down there and just check it out. Again, I have had weird charging issues from the get-go and I do not want to ruin this!

    Worked to hard on the bike and was SO happy with the Luna set-up. Want to keep that going!! My intentions are good on that! 48.1 ... any advice besides all you have already give. THANKS!!!

    Here is a link to a pic of the bike...
    www.wildbeachcruisers.com/luna.jpg
    www.wildbeachcruisers.com/luna2.jpg

    Also did the initial install with XT-90s / spark arresters etc...

     
    • #9.1 
      yki commented
      1 week ago
      If pack voltage is still climbing, even slowly, that's a very good indication BMS balancing is taking place. I've seen packs require days or more of constant charging to re-condition cell balance.
  • #10
    1 week ago
    Sweet build and nice chainguard. Sorry to hear you're still having charging issues. My unprofessional guess is that your charger is bad. I had that charger and it failed. If I remember correctly, only one light would come on while charging. If you can find another 52v charger to test, that would alleviate all the speculations on the BMS issue.
     
    • DEENTVTG
      #10.1
      DEENTVTG commented
      1 week ago
      Yes, you are right about alleviating all the BMS issues... I'm going to see what I can do to find another Smart Charger.... 48.4 volts today... LOL No hard offer from Luna to say, "send it down." Even after various charging problems after the purchase and polite emails / tickets to support@lunacycle.com. Wow.
  • #11 
    1 minute ago
    So here you are folks.... Luna's latest ridiculing of trying to explain a hard- to-answer question (for me at least). KNOWING that there were problems with the first batches of the Advanced 52v charger they sent out, I thought I'd get "a little help" to send it in and see if it was indeed faulty.

    What did I get after all this effort.... Ridiculing at its finest... SAME AS THEIR AWESOME (LOL) SUPPORT & ATTITUDE helping someone who spent $1400 with them during their start-up, AND was referring people left and right their way.

    This is only one example of the many I received back trying to figure out what the heck was going on. Remember folks, this charger had some bizarre issues along with calls to them at the time of purchase... I wanted to send it back then, but they said to try various things at the time and I finally got the bike to charge. Unfortunately, it was only used a couple of times during the build and now that the build is done (less than a year after the purchase), this is the response. Really? Think I will be buying anything from them again? Sad.
    SEP 12, 2017 | 09:49PM UTC
    Scott replied:

    There is simply just too much to sort through at this point for a small charger. In the future, I recommend keeping your email summaries down to a minimum. It’s very difficult to troubleshoot an issue if you’re just going off on a rant and talking about unrelated subjects.

    If it were new and recently purchased, we’d just send you a new one but unfortunately it’s far too old at this point. Chargers are covered for 6 months and beyond that. The problem appears to be the charger and it’s going to need to be replaced.
    Oh, and let's not forget this email frome Luna Cycle:

    SEP 07, 2017  |  09:42PM UTC
    Scott replied:
    Err, purchased about a year ago? Sorry man. This is kind of out of it’s warranty period by quite a lot. We can help you troubleshoot the issue and sniff it out, but we cannot send a replacement or accept a repair for a year old charger. Sorry about that. Not trying to be a dick or anything but there are just too many variables at play here. It doesn’t appear that the charger was ever delivered in a DOA condition so it can be hard to say.

    SEP 08, 2017  |  06:41PM UTC
    Scott replied:
    Err, I’m sorry man. Sounds like you possibly need a new charger at this point. In the future, I recommend reporting these issues to us sooner as soon you notice them. As compensation, I can offer you $20 coupon code off a new charger to make up for the trouble.

    SEP 12, 2017  |  09:49PM UTC
    Scott replied:
    There is simply just too much to sort through at this point for a small charger. In the future, I recommend keeping your email summaries down to a minimum. It’s very difficult to troubleshoot an issue if you’re just going off on a rant and talking about unrelated subjects.

    If it were new and recently purchased, we’d just send you a new one but unfortunately it’s far too old at this point. Chargers are covered for 6 months and beyond that.

    $20?? I've only spent 40 hours TRYING to f'n resolve this and thought you "Luna Cycle" might offer some sort of interest in either seeing the charger... learning something about this situation.... maybe seeing the effort I TRIED to make etc... vs. MAYBE looking at it as let's just replace the charger or whatever. Maybe the battery is indeed f'd up. NO, I do not have another $700 to "buy and guess" what is going wrong here. What the heck Luna Cycle?


Sorry Eric Hicks - Owner / President Luna Cycle
Luna Cycle LLC
1330 E Franklin Ave.
El Segundo, CA 90245
(800) 881-4471
support@lunacycle.com
sales@lunacycle.com